What's with all of the penalty reviews?

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  • Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:43 PM
    Message # 7012323

    I don't remember the exact spiel before the start of each game but its along the lines of "video replays will be done by the we ain't telling you anything about what or why the review is happening except what our decision is and you'll like it". The actual wording may be slightly different, but the outcome isn't.

    I have watched other college games and I don't remember seeing more than maybe one other such after-the- fact video review, and I don't think it  resulted in an expansion of the original penalty.

    I think that one of the game misconduct/5 minute majors called against UNO didn't actually have an initial penalty that was called but instead was initiated by a coaches challenge during the next stoppage, but I don't have the games recorded so I may be wrong there. 

    Regardless, it seems that IF UNO undergoes such a review the player is always ejected and a major is called, but if an opposing player is called then only the original 2 minute penalty is the final result. This review did happen to UND Saturday, evidently initiated by coach Gabinet, but only the intial 2 minute penalty was ultimately called and UNO lost their time-out. I don't remember another instance of a video review of player misconduct for any other players that UNO has faced.

    The bare-bones explanation for all of these has been a blow to the head, I believe. Considering that I am not seeing calls, or at least not the quantity of calls against opposing players during our conference games or in other non UNO college games on tv then either we have a bunch of goons playing for UNO or something stinks with the penalty system.

  • Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:47 PM
    Reply # 7012396 on 7012323
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Smallidge’s hit on North Dakota’s Hain (at the red line) on Saturday was not called at all... then Brad Berry complained, the play was reviewed, and a 5 minute major was called. 

    I watched the play a few times on NCHC.tv. I mean, his shoulder made contact with the player’s head, but I didn’t think it was any more egregious than the North Dakota player’s stick slashing Evan Weninger’s mask during the first period on Saturday (which resulted in a minor). 

    The “zero tolerance” contact to the head penalties are understandable (in terms of safety). 

    However, I don’t like the business of calling penalties after the fact (when no initial penalty was called). 

    I’m also not a fan of coaches getting in the face of refs (guys like Brad Berry and Bob Motzko like to do that), but that’s another debate... 

  • Monday, January 21, 2019 6:10 AM
    Reply # 7012795 on 7012396
    Anonymous wrote:

    Smallidge’s hit on North Dakota’s Hain (at the red line) on Saturday was not called at all... then Brad Berry complained, the play was reviewed, and a 5 minute major was called. 

    I watched the play a few times on NCHC.tv. I mean, his shoulder made contact with the player’s head, but I didn’t think it was any more egregious than the North Dakota player’s stick slashing Evan Weninger’s mask during the first period on Saturday (which resulted in a minor). 

    The “zero tolerance” contact to the head penalties are understandable (in terms of safety). 

    However, I don’t like the business of calling penalties after the fact (when no initial penalty was called). 

    I’m also not a fan of coaches getting in the face of refs (guys like Brad Berry and Bob Motzko like to do that), but that’s another debate... 

    I am not, and never have been, a "let 'em play' guy. If it's a rule and a player violated it, call it, especially rules about head contact.

    The 2 things that I'm complaining about is the seeming arbitrary nature of these calls and the minimal explanation provided. When one team is repeatedly hit with 5 minute majors then either they are undisciplined or the rules aren't being called consistently. 

    And for this replay system to work there HAS to be video footage of the incident. After the call has been made show it


  • Tuesday, January 22, 2019 9:47 AM
    Reply # 7015179 on 7012323

    After seeing Weiss' hit Friday night, and Smallidge's hit on Saturday - yes, both were penalties. Both worthy of majors. Weiss knew his was right away.

    I'm not a fan of the Smallidge hit being a major. (This is where I tell you that 10-15 years ago it's not even a penalty.)

    The whack at Weninger. As an official in that situation, I think it gets lost that there was contact to the head. The line of thought is: I've got the slash, oh crap someone is going to chase this guy down.  The argument that it should have been reviewed for a major is legit.

    At some point - and I refuse to do so immediately following games - I will reach out to Bokal about what they saw on the hit on Buchta. There was a high stick - was it major-worthy? No. But I say that under the same caveat that I don't think the Smallidge hit should be major-worthy.

    The reality is this: you can't call EVERYTHING. When the refs call EVERYTHING, it frustrates the players, the coaches, and the fans. All that negative energy tends to breed MORE PENALTIES. Which leads to more frustration.

    American referees are more selective in what they call. (Not saying its a good thing.) Canadian officials get a bit more by the book. European officials are strictly by the book - as we see in the World Juniors.

    For Americans, it's called 'game management'. We did not see that properly applied last weekend - or in Denver.

    To be honest, I wish the 'Standard of Play' directives would go away. I get they are trying to eliminate the cheap and dangerous plays. But there used to be a 'penalty standard':

    1. infraction created an immediate change of possession.
    2. infraction created or nullified an obvious goal-scoring opportunity.
    3. infraction was blatantly obvious.
    4. infraction had the potential to cause injury to either player.
    If any of those are met - you make the call.
  • Tuesday, January 22, 2019 6:01 PM
    Reply # 7031078 on 7015179
    Anonymous wrote:

    After seeing Weiss' hit Friday night, and Smallidge's hit on Saturday - yes, both were penalties. Both worthy of majors. Weiss knew his was right away.

    I'm not a fan of the Smallidge hit being a major. (This is where I tell you that 10-15 years ago it's not even a penalty.)

    The whack at Weninger. As an official in that situation, I think it gets lost that there was contact to the head. The line of thought is: I've got the slash, oh crap someone is going to chase this guy down.  The argument that it should have been reviewed for a major is legit.

    At some point - and I refuse to do so immediately following games - I will reach out to Bokal about what they saw on the hit on Buchta. There was a high stick - was it major-worthy? No. But I say that under the same caveat that I don't think the Smallidge hit should be major-worthy.

    The reality is this: you can't call EVERYTHING. When the refs call EVERYTHING, it frustrates the players, the coaches, and the fans. All that negative energy tends to breed MORE PENALTIES. Which leads to more frustration.

    American referees are more selective in what they call. (Not saying its a good thing.) Canadian officials get a bit more by the book. European officials are strictly by the book - as we see in the World Juniors.

    For Americans, it's called 'game management'. We did not see that properly applied last weekend - or in Denver.

    To be honest, I wish the 'Standard of Play' directives would go away. I get they are trying to eliminate the cheap and dangerous plays. But there used to be a 'penalty standard':

    1. infraction created an immediate change of possession.
    2. infraction created or nullified an obvious goal-scoring opportunity.
    3. infraction was blatantly obvious.
    4. infraction had the potential to cause injury to either player.
    If any of those are met - you make the call.

    My problem is that if a fan wants to see what and why something is called they need to subscribe to a service and wait until they get home to see what was called and why. Even that may be difficult if you are using NCHC TV, because not every game is carried and the quality of some games isn't very good. And if you have no experience with the penalties then you don't know what to look for or why.

    Show it. Explain it.

  • Friday, January 25, 2019 12:47 AM
    Reply # 7128417 on 7012323

    I don't think you'll ever see video replays of hits like that played AT the game.  Not to discredit any UNO fan or think that it would actually happen, but fans are too biased and who knows what some dumbass might do, like throw their beer at the ref as he skates by.  Probably wouldn't happen at a UNO game, maybe a Lancer game haha!  But they won't show those replays.  Get used to it. 

    I also wasn't a fan of that penalty.  Just as much as I hate seeing a good body check in the NHL immediately followed by some bruiser having to track that guy down and give him the business.  Dude got hit, hard, so what, live with it, keep your smurfin head up.  Didn't like Smallidge's major either, as Beemer puts it 10 years ago that's not even a penalty, but could see the head contact, so it is what it is.  What I don't like, as has been discussed, is how that play goes from a no call to a major, that's hortwizzlers. 

    I don't compare Smallidge's hit to the slash on Weninger in any way shape or form.  Was hardly even a slash.  I mean it was a penalty just considering how late of a slash it was, but a major never even popped into my head.  And I was watching at home and got to see replays.  Smallidge's hit could have resulted in a concussion or injury.  No way Weninger gets injured by that love tap to the bottom of his mask.

    Weiss's major wasn't as violent of a hit but the awkwardness of it and potential for injury makes me not mind that being a major.  Could see 2 for boarding as a call too, but his head was the first thing that hit the boards IIRC, that's a major.

  • Sunday, January 27, 2019 10:54 AM
    Reply # 7131732 on 7012323

    In the NCAA, referees have the minor option on checking from behind. However, all checking from behind calls in which the checked player contacts the boards is a major plus game.

  • Sunday, January 27, 2019 12:04 PM
    Reply # 7131812 on 7131732
    Anonymous wrote:

    In the NCAA, referees have the minor option on checking from behind. However, all checking from behind calls in which the checked player contacts the boards is a major plus game.

    You know that because of your connections to NCAA hockey refereeing and time spent refereeing yourself in high school and kids leagues.

    Most people don't, even longtime hockey fans. An explanation would at least remove the 'ignorant fan didn't know the actual regulation' excuse. If the rules say condition A mandates penalty B then the referee is not at fault for calling a penalty that way. Unless no one in the crowd KNOWS that they are required to call it that way, in which case the refs are blind, paid off or just biased, as far as the fans know.

  • Sunday, January 27, 2019 3:07 PM
    Reply # 7132010 on 7012323

    All it requires is someone reading the NCAA Rulebook.

    It might not help in the immediate term, but if it bothers you enough that you think about it the next day -- look it up!

  • Sunday, January 27, 2019 6:32 PM
    Reply # 7132249 on 7012323
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I wouldn’t mind the refs giving more of an explanation...

    Mainly because it might avoid the lengthy conversations that ensue with the people around us asking what just happened. 

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